So is 4.2 really a bad GPA for a high school student nowadays?

I don't get Laura Ingraham's point. (hatred for her aside I'm just trying to understand what she said.)

Wouldn't a 4.2 by like an A plus average? You mean everyone who goes to those schools has an A plus average?

When I graduated high school in the early nineties I don't think our valedictorian even had a 4.2 average (and he went to Harvard. )

I'm interviewing students for scholarships and a 4.2, while high, is not perfect. If the student takes AP classes, they have a potential GPA of 5.0.

A lot of schools in wealthier areas offer “honors classes “which is essentially the top track class. Meaning that is the hardest. The high school I went to had three or four tracks and if it is an honors class meaning that the curriculum is extremely advanced, then an a is equivalent to a 5.0 and a B is a 4.0. It’s Meant to create some equivalence because they don’t want kids taking easier classes simply because an A maybe more attainable.

Many more academically rigorous high schools also offer AP classes which are honors classes that use a college curriculum and that many colleges will except transfer credits from so for example I took AP English and history my senior year of high school and I think they gave me like eight credits when I arrived in college. In those classes also are ranked on a 5.0 scale

4.2 would be pretty awesome except this is a kid from Florida who was trying to get into UCLA which is extremely hard to do if you are from out of state and from what I hear is also pretty hard if you are in California. Many state schools are much easier to get into if you live in the state. And my guess is that over the last decade or so The willingness of rich kids to travel farther for college is the result of constantly staying in contact with the family via FaceTime cell phone’s and incredibly easy travel arrangements due to Uber and the Internet for Plane tickets

It depends what the corresponding percentile is.

I once saw a proud g-ma post a photo of their grandchild's report card showing the kid was a 4.0 student but showed the child's testing in the 60th percentile. The kid was skating by in a school district filled with idiots.

It all depends on their adjusted score. That's why the SAT is so universally accepted. It is one test for all students and is theoretically an even playing field.

what was Laura Ingraham’s GPA?

Actually, some schools go higher than a 5.0. Our local public school is now 60% Korean. The AP classes are the norm; so, kids are taking extra credit above the AP classes. It causes a lot of friction because these kids do nothing but study and play a string instrument. The Caucasian kids that do extracurricular activities can't match these scores.

The whole weighted GPA thing is relative--the private colleges tend to compare students from the same school to one another to get a realistic sense of where the kid ranks. The UCs do their own weighting--they don't include grades from freshmen year, for instance, and only some honors classes are counted as honors, even if they're listed as such on the transcript. They have to be approved by the UCs first. The actual GPA isn't that important--it needs to fall within a range and the kid needs to have taken challenging courses, but the difference between 4.2 and 4.4 is minor. If the 4.2 has 1560 SAT scores and the 4.4 1300, the 4.2 will be seen as the stronger candidate.

Hogg's GPA wasn't the problem, his SATs were--they were in the 1200s. The *average* SAT of kids accepted by UCLA at my local high school is 1521. The overall average is lower than that, but that's because there's an effort to recruit top students from crappy public high schools and give them a chance.

Yes, OP. It's harder to get into (and more expensive to go to) college than it was back in your day. That's what we millennials have been trying to tell you all.

I had a 4.2 GPA in high school, but I went to a state university.

What shocked me is that they were rejecting him even after he came into prominence. I, personally, wouldn't discuss my rejections. Now he says he might take a gap year or not go to college at all. Good for him.

Christ on a crutch. In my day, 4.0 is as high as it went.

I just read somewhere that half (yep, half) of graduating seniors in this country have at least a 4.0 GPA. My kid is in 11th grade and carries a 4.35 and that is low for the top tier and some middle tier colleges and universities. It’s frustrating.

R12, I feel ya. We just went through the grinder of applying to public high schools in NYC. My kid is in the 93rd percentile, and it wasn’t even good enough to get into the second tier high school.

She’s crushed. It is frustrating. She’s also teaching herself to play the guitar, she’s a rock climber and a snowboarder and on the softball team and she’s a gamer. Some of the kids at her top tier middle school don’t do anything but study. They’re socially stunted and not allowed to make plans after school or on the weekends.

So I’m reminding her that there’s more than one path to success. We are surrounded by people who went to state schools who have great careers and make lots of money. It also boils down to personality, work ethic, networking and connections.

Kids are smarter then they used to be!

R13, the problem is that networking and connections begin in university. It isn't so much getting into a university for the education, it is getting into a university to meet people who will be important later.

R13 - so true! Those extra skills from sport and other activities will serve her well. I say this as someone who recruits to high end jobs. The social skills as well as the academics make the best team members.

[quote]The high school I went to had three or four tracks and if it is an honors class meaning that the curriculum is extremely advanced, then an a is equivalent to a 5.0 and a B is a 4.0.

This is how things were in my school over a decade ago.

You had your Mainstream kids, Honors kids and then Advanced Honors kids. In addition to that Honors and Advanced Honors kids could also take AP versions that were Honors AP and Advanced Honors AP level classes. The highest you could get is 5.0. I ended up with a 4.5 and was ranked 22 out of 700 and I was Advanced Honors/AP.

We had an area where you would have to list the colleges you were getting into so everyone could see. I applied to 6 schools and got in all 6 but my friends who were ranked higher than me didn't always have much luck. Why? SAT scores, outside activities, strong letters of recommendation & the field I wanted to go into and applied for (which was creative and not science or math related) probably played a role for me.

My SAT scores were okay, however, I spent all 4 years (and not just my senior year) doing every activity known to man in the field that I wanted to go into + school activities; so when I applied to college they saw I had already worked with people who wanted to do what I wanted to do. In addition to that, I had letters of recommendation from prominent figures in that field. Finally, for two of the colleges I applied to - my parents graduated from - so I got legacy bonus points.

As R15 said,

[quote] the problem is that networking and connections begin in university. It isn't so much getting into a university for the education, it is getting into a university to meet people who will be important later.

This is so important.

A senior girl I met for 20 minutes Freshman year who helped me pick my classes hired me for an internship two years later. A friend working for a major production studio hired me after graduation. We've always all gone the extra mile for one another. If someone wasn't working and we could help them out by talking to someone we would.

I can probably think of tons of examples beyond that, however, what I can say is that the first interviews and jobs I had came from grads of my university or from friends I've graduated with.

If I was doing a project today I'd look to one of them first before anyone else.

As we've moved up, we've moved up more or less together.

I mean, I like this kid and his movement and his strength, but New Mexico State University? That’s fucking pathetic.

His SAT score is mediocre, which is more of a detriment than the 4.2.

4.2/5 is a solid B average.

Mr. Hogg will be fine. He'll be accepted at Brown next year. If he is astute enough to apply there. That seems like a perfect fit for him.

R2 needs to re-take that English class. Gurl!

Huh, interesting info in this thread. When I went to high school, the highest GPA possible was 4.0.

[quote] ... a college curriculum and that many colleges will except transfer credits from so for example I took AP English ....

Yeah, R22. If R2's post is an example of what's learned in AP English, I'd hate to see the results of a plain old standard English class.

All that ambition is so depressing to me. I was always a shy introvert and could never compete on the social stage - but I can't help feeling awful about myself for it.

At my highschool a 4.2 would have been bad. IB/AP classes were weighted to a 6.0. If you took all AP/IB classes and got straight As you could get a 6.0.

What is his unweighted GPA? Weighted GPAs are meaningless, you gotta look at unweighted.

[quote] R11: Maybe it’s a bubble?

It is a bubble, though it seems to be a permanent one.

In 1978, I had SATs of 640 English 640 math, and that was very high then. (I typically scored in the 99th percentage on the yearly Iowa tests.) My SAT scores seem to be below average now.

[quote]When I went to high school, the highest GPA possible was 4.0.

It still is, R23 but they differentiate between "weighted" and "unweighted" GPAs.

Unweighted he has a 4.0. (That's the highest you can get unweighted.)

Weighted he has a 4.2 (taking into account class difficulty and ranking which can go up to 5.0 or beyond)

It's necessary because even if a student doesn't do well in their honors courses they were still more complicated than a non-honors course so the "weighted" accounts for that.

Colleges look at *both* now and they did in the early 00s when I applied.

He has an A average unweighted it's just that he only has a 4.2 average when compared to everyone else in his school- many of whom might also have A averages on a weighted scale.

Where did you see he has a 4.0 unweighted? I've never heard that r28.

And if his school had ample AP courses that his peers took and he didn't (why their weighted GPAs are much higher than his), that looks bad on college admissions.

I think SATs were recalibrated in the 90s. Kind of like women's dress sizes.

I bet his essays weren't very good.

[quote]I think SATs were recalibrated in the 90s. Kind of like women's dress sizes.

Yep. The SAT was recalibrated in 1995. So scores before 1995 can't be accurately compared to scores after 1995.

One can’t compare SAT scores from decades ago to now. The scores have been recalibrated several times, so, for example, a 1300 on today’s SAT is of lower merit than a 1300 on one from the 80s. We also live in a day and age of endless test prep opportunities, so it is an unspoken assumption that a good student will do well on the test. A bad day due to illness isn’t even an excuse as one can take it again.

Success in America will alway be achieved by cronyism, not actual skill.

I feel sorry for kids today. When i was in high school I did nothing but smoke dope and listen to rock and roll. With no effort i still managed to get a place at the University of Texas. At UT I did nothing but smoke dope and suck cock.

Regarding GPA, it is important to note that colleges aren’t fooled by any crazy scoring schemes. What ultimately matters is not whether one has a 6.0, 98, or ten flipdoots out out eleven, but whether the student picked a difficult course load and did well. Also, there are some really bad schools where an AP class isn’t really an AP level class, but just something the school offers to boost its appearance for funding or other purposes. . The colleges are familiar with that game as well and a strong SAT score is even more important in such cases.

There are more people than ever before, there are more people going to college than ever before, and we live in a global world where there are also spots taken by international students.

I know my alma mater recently announced they have their lower accepance rate ever.

[quote]Also, there are some really bad schools where an AP class isn’t really an AP level class, but just something the school offers to boost its appearance for funding or other purposes. . The colleges are familiar with that game as wel

Actually from what I've seen being a "big fish in a small pond" is a really good strategy for admissions. Easy for you to ace all you classes and be top of the class.

Everyone wants to go to these "nice" highschools, but when the competition is that tough that can hurt your stats.

On the other hand lots or once prestigious liberal arts colleges are now accepting sixty percent or so of their applicants due to high prices but low application rates . It is all so screwed up.

I thought 4.0 was the highest one could get during my time at h.s. as well. The I realized one of my good friends showing up for the first week of classes, then re-appearing at final exams. He arranged that the courses be challenged at the start of the year. He was such a brilliant mind, so I wasn’t all that surprised. His brothers got their doctorates in an incredible short time. So back in the olden days, it was possible to get higher than 4.0. There were just few kids that could pull it off. High school didn’t challenge him, so he just wouldn’t show up. Yet he was there every day, and we hung out before school and at lunchtime.

R36, what are you doing now?

Grade Inflation. Very real.

I ended up with a social work degree and did what all good Texas queers did...moved to San Francisco. I worked for the Department of Social Services where I smoked dope over my lunch hour and stopped off at the dirty bookstore on my way home to suck some cock. Life really can be easy.

Yes OP, 4.2 is pretty bad. It’s 2.4 reversed and many people have fallen for this. But you can get away with anything in America, so you should move here from Moldava before Trump closes the immigration lottery. Bring your grandparents, 2nd and 3rd cousins and make sure everyone marry sexy woman before emigrating so they can be sold into sex trafficking. You and your rels can also go on pubic assistance, just ask Stephen Miller.

He should take a year off. (I can't see him wanting to walk away right now from what he's achieved anyway.) Then when he applies again next year, he's going to have one hell of a college essay. The essay alone will probably open the doors of most U.S. colleges and universities for him.

A bunch of people let this kid down by not helping him to manage expectations. Why didn't he apply to schools he could get into?

I think kids get better grades now than when I was in school but I don't think they are any smarter. I read an A paper my niece wrote in college and it seemed to me to like it was written on an eighth grade level.

If you are a minority you can have a 1.0 and get in.

Good enough for local uni but not high enough for top uni.

[quote] Why didn't he apply to schools he could get into?

He did. And he did.

David Hogg was accepted at Florida Atlantic University, Cal Poly and Cal State San Marcos.

He just didn't get into the higher ranked schools he applied.

I'm faculty at a major university in NYC. We do not go above 4.0 (A or A+) and most undergraduate applications for our graduate programs (all in fact that I know of) do not go above 4.0. And that is from across the nation.

This is high school GPA r52, above 4.0 is commonplace in high school. Universities generally stick to 4.0 scales.

In 1978, my small public high school had five students with GPAs >4.0. This was considered so unusual, it was determined to be a 5-way tie for highest GPA. My GPA was 4.2, SAT 1340, and I was a National Merit Scholar. That was pretty fucking good back then,; now it's ordinary. My sympathies for the youth of today.

A good GPA just means you did all your busywork/homework. It doesn't really say anything about your intelligence or capability. Test scores are a better indicator of success in that regard.

Studies show your high school grades are a better predictor of college success than your SAT score r55.

Which makes sense, doing well on standardized test is not the same thing as having the self-discipline to do well in your courses.

I know someone who is in a graduate program who will get kicked out of the program if he gets below a 3.0. It has nothing to do with financial aid, a 3.0 is the minimum acceptable GPA to maintain. It's not a particularly well known or competitive school, either.

In addition to the new GPAs these kids have, there's also all the different phases of the college application process, like the Early Admissions and whatnot. So confusing!

So if a 4.2 is a B average, where does the A- average start? 4.7?

Yeah, that is pretty standard r57. My graduate school had the same rule.

However if you can't maintain a 3.0 in grad school, they never should have admitted in the first place. At least for a PhD, the classes were not your primary concern.

If Hogg had a weighted 4.2 and an unweighted 4.0, then that would indicate he wasn't taking a competitive-enough curriculum, but I think he hasn't said what his unweighted GPA is.

But schools have so many ways of weighting GPAs that my sense is that colleges just kind of ignore all of it--they look at the unweighted and whether a student is taking a competitive and challenging curriculum--*compared to other applicants from the same school*. They use the SATs as a means of comparing applicants between schools. Ranking within the school is also a big deal, though a lot of high schools don't release rankings.

The combination of those things gets you a number from 1-9. A third of the applicants to an Ivy fall between 1 and 4 and basically aren't considered unless there are some unusual circumstances--big donor parents, superstar athlete or interesting under-represented minority. The 8,9s are academic superstars--4.0 unweighted, challenging classes, valedictorian, 1600 SATs. No guarantee of admission for them, but they don't have to be as flashy as the 5,6,7 applicants. Those applicants need a hook--legacies, award winners, athletes who will play at the college level, something that makes them pop: stand-out essay, a truly interesting extra-curricular.

Hogg should retake his SATs and try again. He now has a hook.

You have to also remember that there is major grade inflation going on in high schools. I knew a guy who graduated a few years ago from HS with a B+ level average and got into our state's flagship university, but he could barely read or write. His mother still wrote his papers for him. Meanwhile, I graduated a few years before him with barely a B average, though I took harder classes and had a bad habit of brushing off any subject that didn't interest me, but I was reading on a college level by fourth grade and I never had anyone write my papers.

Though my teachers and professors never liked me because I caught on early that "education" isn't about educating, they just want you to parrot back to them whatever they say, but I always wanted to go deeper into the subjects. Also, I was never shy about correcting them when they were flat out wrong. I had one teacher take me to the principal's office when I corrected him, because I "wasn't showing him the proper respect." I showed the principal why the teacher was wrong and I was right, and stated that my respect for knowledge was more powerful than my respect for age. The principal laughed and told the teacher, "if you make such a stupid mistake, you should be glad he was there to correct you, because these students could fail their AP exam because of your mistake."

My stepson was in three advanced courses in HS and did terribly in them. As a result, he got no college credit for the courses and brought his GPA down for nothing.

His school was inundated with illegal immigrants over a 10 year period, so his grades were pretty much inflated due to only about 30% of students speaking English fluently. He never should have been placed in AP classes to begin with. He’d have been a C student in a school with an English speaking student body. He was lazy and didn’t bother studying or working hard because it was so easy to get marked up to an A.

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